Not Everyone Has An Internal Monologue with Hannah Chester and Dr. Barbara Shabazz
Episode 416: Show Notes
At the tail end of January, there was a viral blog post that blew our minds, and since then we have been on the hunt to find others who are experiencing similar things. The post was about a guy who had a bad day because he found out that not everyone has an inner monologue, in other words, they do not talk to themselves. We’ve managed to track down a handful of people who swear they do not have that internal voice happening at all. One of these people is Hannah Chester. Hannah never realized there was such a thing as internal monologue until she was diagnosed with ADHD and listened to a podcast about it.
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For her, her thoughts are more like a visualization rather than a conversation that takes place within. When she remembers something that needs to be done, she sees a mental picture of it — there is no inner voice that narrates the scenario to her. We invited Dr. Barbara Shabazz to give us a scientific perspective on internal monologue and how that ties into ADHD, and the four of us have a fascinating conversation about how differently each of us experiences and engages with the world. Join us to hear more about this internal monologue from those who do and those who don’t!
What The Science Community Has To Say
We started asking around in the scientific community about people who do not have an internal monologue and we came back with different responses. Some people argue that it’s not that those people don’t have that ability but rather they do not know how to tap into it. Barbara says it started in the 1920s with a psychologist called Jean Piaget who talked about inner thought or private speech. Piaget suggested self-talk is the first initial form of speech but that it fades away as we grow up. But in the 1930s, the psychologist Lev Vygotsky proposed private speech develops from social speech and later becomes internalized rather than diminishing with age. The contemporary researcher Dr. Russell T Hurlburt, on the other hand, is of the opinion that there are more people who do not have internal monologue than people who do, stating that while some people talk to themselves a lot, there are others who seldom or never engage in this self-talk. The most surprising of these theories is the idea that internal monologue is not a fundamental human experience; that it is something only some of us experience.
The Brain Structure of People with ADHD and How To Overcome Challenges
Hannah is convinced that her lack of internal monologue is related to her ADHD. People with ADHD have more dopamine receptors in their brains which means they respond differently to stimuli. Their brain structures are different in that they struggle to organize their thoughts, a function that is aided by self-talk. For ADHD patients, they do not process thoughts in the form of an inner conversation, but they process information as they say it and thus it is difficult for them to keep focused on one point. What has helped Hannah is to speak to herself out loud to help her develop self-talk and to stay focused on the task at hand. So, instead of getting distracted, she has now cultivated the habit of talking to herself to help steer her thoughts in the right direction and thus to be more organized and committed to routines. By speaking out loud, she also reminds herself of what needs to happen next. In the context of business, Hannah strategizes best when she is working with other people rather than doing it independently. Others help her to keep on topic and stay focused. She also writes down everything that pops into her mind and then later reworks that information into something meaningful. Taking notes and doing purposeful ‘mind dump’ exercises is helpful because it helps to declutter the mind and makes room for new information. Using voice recordings or saying things out loud, as Hannah said, helps to keep you focused. Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with people who do not have internal monologue; it’s simply different. They don’t experience a lack or void either. It can be powerful to simply speak your mind and not to ruminate over things.
Tactics for Conquering Anxieties, Fears, and Insecurities in Business
While Hannah doesn’t overthink things and replay conversations over and over again, she still gets anxious sometimes, but it also happens more in the moment. For her, anxiety is a reaction to the present moment rather than the result of ruminating over things. Many of us get anxious when we close our eyes at night and all the worse-case scenarios pop into our heads. It’s important to keep in mind that people perceive things differently. Even if our circumstances were the same, we would still all respond differently to it. Barbara likes to encourage her clients to keep focusing on the facts because often we get into this overthinking mode during which we waste time by speculating. We can come up with a million different reasons for something, but it doesn’t benefit us in any way. Should you have anxiety, it’s good to reach out to a business partner, friend, or mental health professional, but more than that, recognize and accept that you will have disappointments and failures – it’s all part of the journey. Try to be realistic, focus on the facts, and don’t be afraid to reach out to someone.
Comparing Hannah’s Experiences to Those Who Have An Internal Monologue
Hannah says she loses things all the time and is always trying to create systems in her mind to help her not misplace things. These systems include making a mental checklist of things to do so that items always end up in the same place and she remembers to do certain tasks. As a parent, this is an additional challenge because you are having to think and be organized with your child’s things as well. For people with an internal monologue, rehearsing situations is commonplace. You can walk through scenarios from start to finish and, most likely, you are saying the words of what is going to happen in your brain. We do this for unimportant things as well as in situations of conflict where we think about what we are going to say before the conversation happens. We then also reflect on the conflict after it took place and think of all the things we should have said. Hannah, on the other hand, resorts to “text rants” because if she’s not writing it down, she doesn’t know how she would say it. She’s had to learn to make notes for herself about what she wanted to speak to someone about and then refer to it when it is appropriate. She used to think that she was dumb and lazy because she was forgetful and battled to articulate her thoughts. Early adulthood was hard for her because she didn’t know that other people had an internal monologue and had no filter for what she said. She performed well enough at school but once she arrived at her university, she fell apart because there was no structure to help her keep focused.
Parting Words of Advice
Many mental health issues are incorrectly labeled as depression, but if you are not satisfied with this diagnosis, make an effort of consulting more than one person. You have to become your own best advocate when it comes to your mental health. We don’t have to use the word “lack” in the context of people who do not engage in an internal monologue because it is just something that is different. It’s important for us to keep having these conversations and to raise awareness around ADHD and for people to get comfortable talking about their struggles.
Quote This
Even if all things are equal, we all experience things differently.
—Dr. Barbara Shabazz
Highlights
What The Science Community Has To Say. [0:04:35.1]
The Brain Structure of People with ADHD and How To Overcome Challenges. [0:09:07.1]
Tactics for Conquering Anxieties, Fears, and Insecurities in Business. [0:21:51.1]
Comparing Hannah’s Experiences to Those Who Have An Internal Monologue. [0:27:40.1]
Parting Words of Advice. [0:38:58.1]
ON TODAY’S SHOW
Hannah Chester
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As a social media marketer and content strategist, Hannah helps entrepreneurs and small to medium-sized businesses grow their audiences, build influence, and drive traffic by coaching them on content clarity, social media content marketing, and strategy, and giving them the tools to grow their brands online. Her clients range from lifestyle e-commerce and fashion brick & mortar to non-profits, local government, and real estate developers.
Dr. Barbara Shabazz
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Dr. Barbara Shabazz is a trained counselor, clinical psychologist, and coach. During her working hours, she is responsible for directing a psychology department and in her leisure time, she enjoys building her personal and executive coaching practice. As an instructor, advisor, speaker, consultant, therapist, and coach, her goal is always to tap into the inherent strengths of each client, participant, and student, equipping them with the tools necessary to live a more action-oriented and authentic life.
KEY TOPICS
Internal monologue, Self-talk, Brain structure, Science, ADHD, Strategizing, Anxiety, Focus
